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Extraordinary Arch telcon, with focus on the User scenario and demo for the first review.


  • Review User scenario
  • Technical gaps in scenario
  • Technical presentation


Time: 2011-01-11 11:00 GMT, WebEx
Chair: Stian
Minutes: Stian
Attending: Stian, Piotr, Raul, Rafa, Kevin, Marco, Kristina, Pique

New actions

  • Pique: Create schematic sketch of I&A and Recommendation interface (due: Friday 2012-01-13)
  • Piotr: Formalize sketches as HTML mockups
  • Piotr: Create first draft of Technical Demo scenario on wiki - similar to User scenario (before 2012-01-16)
  • Kevin: Review Technical Demo page and add highlights that can be made into slides


  • Except for "Live RO in RO DL portal" all red issues on User scenario are doable in time for plenary
  • "Publish Live RO" button is needed to explain moving on to "5 years later" scenario, but does not need to be sophisticated at this point (ie. does not need checking minimal integration model, filling in missing metadata, etc) - it can even just be Slideware
  • I&A and Recommendation does not yet have UI - so we will show these as (clearly) mockup screenshot - this is what we will have in year 2 and 3
  • The Technical Scenario bit will follow the same path as User scenario, but provide architectural hooks that Work Package presentations then can refer back to
  • Piotr (and Raul) will be the Technical presenter
    • Stian will be in Hungary (SHIWA), so might need someone like Paolo for any workflow-techie questions, but we don't anticipate detailed questions about workflow technology as this project deals with the surroundings of the workflow
  • Techie presentation will first be sketched out as a wiki page similar to user scenario - from next week it will be made into presentations
  • Need a common presentation/powerpoint template for the whole revie

Chat log

From Webex chat log:

<OeRC WebEx> No, I didn;t hear from anyone... I emailed Marco and Pique this mornign to check they'd be with us, but I didn;t check with anyone else
<OeRC WebEx> Which WPs are we missing?
<Kevin> (can't really hear whoever is speaking)
<OeRC WebEx> Everyone on Pique's call on Monday at 4pm CET is aware if the purpose fo today's meeting
<Piotr> now's better
<Kevin> Is anyone able to summarise any differences between the Christmas demo diagram and the user scenario? ( in terms of interactions with tools)
<Kevin> I guess anything in the Christmas toolkit that isn't in the user demo might want to be demoed separately?
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Agenda: a) Review user scenario. b) Identify gaps for demo
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> That's a good point
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: is the most recent
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: short demo from user perspective, then a longer technical presentation
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Stian: Not sure who would be presented
<Pique> finnally in !
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr can present technical part in general, and Portal etc.. but of course Graham is more expert on RO manager
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr have been touching most of the tools
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> so we are thinking Piotr and/or Raul to do the technical bit
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Stian has been mentioned, but has been double-booked for SHIWA conference
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: Does schema use other tools than Taverna and (question) - say the RO tool?
<Raul> ?= portal
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: Portal
<Raul> difficult to hear pique
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Not sure if we should show CLT if Portal is working
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> I struggle as well to hear
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: The colour coding like Red not working in the wiki page is correect
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> sounds doable
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> not sure about "Publishing Live RO" - what is that?
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: Can just do this by slideware
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: To think about live-publishing afterwards.. but in demo this could just show what has been published. dLibra does have 'publish' action.. but would need to estimate if that can be done for the plenary
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Stian: What is the actual effect of this - just "Status: Published" or what?
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: Show on main page all the published ROs even if not logged in - other wise only on "My ROs"
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> so click Publish, then return to main page to show it appearing
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Would be careful about publication scenario.. it needs more work. Difference between annotating.. as soon as you create an RO with the portal, it is a Live RO
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Making it a Publish RO is not just saying "It is published" - much more
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Could add button, we would need it - but not implement it yet
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Would suggest Publish would be make a copy, select what is in there, minimal information model on what needs to be filled in, etc.
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: But important to show on timeline. And for us it is OK because we are not ready to publish the work
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: Yes, just want to show that we are closing the lifecycle of the RO
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: Just ssaying there are different stages
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> manage content.. add/delete (question) in RO
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> in the end of demo, now.. "published"
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> don't need it to be sophisticated
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Perhaps "Ready to be published"
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Stian: But it's not ready, it's being prepared.. we have talked alot about what is needed for such a published RO, minimal information model, etc.. and can't just ignore all that. Just stop dead and say "and now it would go through this publication process"
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Do the "5-years-from-now" scenario
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: In this scenario we are working with a 5y published RO
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: So need the "Publish" button to close this circle and move towards the 5y after scenario
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Stian: Something else missing that is not yet marked there?
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: comments in violet are more technical.. for instance I&A
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: But would there even be enough time to show such prototypes
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: Purple are questions or things that are not quite clear in the project
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: Rafa is on the call as well
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: We have talked about recommendations
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: not sure about status on this..
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: But we understand how this could appear on the homepage of the user
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Rafa: Already working
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Rafa: problems calling the service.. but
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Rafa: (question) - have updated interface information on the wiki
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Rafa: Hope that by end of this week someone will provide m with (question))
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Raul: How about putting it on the sandbox
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Rafa: Will have to do this
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Could suggest.. is it possible to get a screenshot now? Of using the astronomy example
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Rafa: It is just a REST interface that gives recommendations about workflows in myExperiment - not very visually appealing
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> PiotrL
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Would have to be connected to the portal first
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: For a screenshot - however it is - we can then think about putting it into the scenario
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Rafa: Say different recommendations for the user in the portal.. (question)
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: Could survive with a screenshot for now - will show some videos of things that are working.. but not all will be videos
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: Some steps in storyboard are related to things that are not yet implemented as we are in a 3-y project
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: Mostly with the 5-y-after scenario - here just a screenshot would do
<Piotr> (Rafa's recommender system documentation)
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Could work with a mockup - these kind of elements were in that screenshot
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: These are the kind of objects we are storing wich such and such annotations
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> I lost connection
<Raul> - Marco: the same applies for I&A (as for the recommender) to have for now a mockup screeshot
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: Worried if it looks like a real thing, would not want to commit to whatever is thrown together in the mockup
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Just put MOCKUP in the picture
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> We are talking about what we have not yet done
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: so one mockup for I&A and one for recommendation
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Yes, Bob is looking for workflows, need recommendations, then need to check integrity of that workflow
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: Could technically do it, but would need help with content
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: What the search should look like.. numbers.. charts.. or what
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: Users will provide you with a schematic mockup
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Technical part - Go through the User demo again - but show technical details on what is going on
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: How.. show each step.. and then show the models, etc?
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Kevin: Not too elaborate, but sketches of interfaces and models.. which can then be talked about in detail in each Work Package description
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: Like screen#1 is first demo, screen #2 shows where in the diagram we are, slides, etc
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Kevin: Yes, provide hooks for later descriptions.. and diagrams about communication between components..
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: Portal with backend, etc.. not much interaction if we are only using portal - only Taverna
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Kevin: For mocked-up then communication with recommender service, etc
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Kevin: so that WP can show how it works internally rather than focus on the interactions..?
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Kevin: would prefer to also show the command line tool.. to manipulate RO
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: Technically the connection between cmnd line tool and RODL has not been done yet..
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Kevin: at least connected through the same model
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: For users to experiment with both modes..
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> structure as RO, annotate is as RO
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: easy to show technical part.. command line, portal.. but structuring data for RO by doing so
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Raul: What about myExperiment part..
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: A video shows import of pack from myExperiment
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Raul: Yes, that would show the integration
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: could say that all the annotations from myXP are imported to portal
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: with comand line tool we can show that once user scenario is complete, and RO is ready, you can download the whole RO as a ZIP, unpack it, then show with the tool that it can list all annotations etc
<Kevin> +1
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> show that it can reuse it through the same model
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Specially in technical part
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Terminal would make it look technical!
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: And show that annotations come out again
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: on myXP part.. would not mind if we can view.. how we can create ROs in portal
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: If myXP comes up in technical perspective, motivation by its content
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Also allow experimentation
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> for it only to appear in technical perspective
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Summary/actions:
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Users (not sure who) to make mockup diagrams of I&A and Recommender
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr to implement this as HTML
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr elected as techie presenter
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Would need to make a new Technical Perspective wiki page mirroring the user scenario points
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Kevin: Also need standard powerpoint template
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Question for Pique - would you make first version of mockup?
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Kevin: Focus on technical wiki walkthrough page for this week - and in Arch call next week progress to presentation land
<Kevin> So I suggest we iterate over the scenario on the wiki over the next week (happy to help with this), then in next week's ARCH telcon we work out the content for the accompanying presentation
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: Yes, can send first mockup of I&A and recommender to Marco before we send it to Piotr
<Kevin> We'll want a common slide presentation for each technical "highlight" providing hooks to link into the detailed WP presentations that follow
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: First Bob's scenario.. then (question)
<Kevin> Perhaps on slide on the current (and proposed) service/component interactions, and one slide on the used common models
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Working on the model.. doing a query across an RO.. been in contact with Piotr on this
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: If you have interesting queries we can put the mon the portal
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Stian and MArco to talk together about querying the RO model
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Kevin: Piotr to finish technical demo scenario on the wiki.. perhaps a day before the next call so that Kevin can look at it first
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> to fill in
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> then Kevin can pull out highlights that can later be made into slides
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Marco: Suggest we have a first version of this by Friday?
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Yes - fine
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Piotr: Link to info on SparQL queries and content negotiation
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> can ask for different RDF formats
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> including TriG and Turtle
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Stian: Also a deadline fo rthe mockups from Pique?
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Friday?
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Pique: Can send it to Marco this week.. timing is tight
<Stian Soiland-Reyes> Friday is agreed

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